waxed vs dewaxed shellac

Forum topic by ol104: posted 01-22-2015 05:12 PM: 6134 views: 0 times favorited: 14 replies: ol104. Pro Grade - Paint Brushes - 5 Ea - Paint Brush Set. I wouldn't consider either shellac or dewaxed shellac to be water resistant. Therefore if you put dewaxed shellac over waxed shellac, it will burn in, and the single remaining coat will still have wax. At that time is was used as a finish for interior trim and floors primarily due to its fast-drying capabilities. That’s why you see SealCoat advertised as a “Universal Sanding Sealer” on the can. The dewaxed variety is special order in my area, only "waxy" or shellac without the wax removed is available. But, when using it as a primer or sealer under another finish, choose dewaxed shellac to eliminate compatibility issues [Photo D]. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. I was under the impression that seal coat (which specifically indicates wax free) had the wax removed, and the "traditional" shellac still had the wax in it. It’s a 300 grams : 1 liter cut. (16oz.) Simple enough, but not a moisture resistant furniture finish.email: thomstevens33@gmail.com Shellac in its natural form has wax in it (about 4% content, IIRC). To address that problem, Zinsser created SealCoat, a dewaxed shellac, meaning it has the wax removed. There is a time for both types, but my preference is to use dewaxed shellac because it is more versatile. Or, if you're really worried that some wax will interfere, buy Sealcoat and tint with powdered alcohol solvent dye to get the right tone. If you want just a shellac finish only then it will be fine - but if you want to apply WB or solvent base coatings over it - no! All will react differently with shellac (waxed or dewaxed). ), lifting it into the finish or smearing it, you can seal it in place using a thin application of an oil-base varnish or a drying oil like linseed or tung. Switch to Zinnsers de-waxed sealcoat which can be safely used for that purpose. Should I put a clear topcoat over the shellac? Can I use it over water based polyacrylic? Waxed shellac vs dewaxed shellac « back to Finishing forum. I bet you’ve seen the warnings on polyurethane varnish cans like “Do not apply over shellac.” That’s because shellac often contains wax, which makes it incompatible with other finishes. Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Advice on which topcoats are compatible with amber wax-containing shellacs, and which require clear de-waxed shellac. If the alcohol in the shellac is dissolving the stain (dye? Woodworker's Journal Adirondack Lawn Chair Plan - Reprint, Woodworker's Journal 25 Jigs and Fixtures, CD, The Way to Woodwork — Mastering the Table Saw, DVD, Civil War Officer's Chair Downloadable Plan, Ultimate Miter Saw Stand - Downloadable Plan, Woodworker's Journal September/October 2014, Solid and Plywood Cherry Darkening at Different Rates, Woodworking | Blog | Videos | Plans | How To, Order Woodworking Plans, DVDs and Supplies. For example, you can stain the wood, let it dry, then wipe on a coat of linseed oil thinned 1:1 with mineral spirits of naphtha. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… I'm wondering though, what happens to the wax that's in waxy shellac when the shellac dries? $6.69 $ 6. Question Hi, I have used a batch of amber shellac on several projects, mostly for french polishing. j.e. cherry, birch, maple, and pine. Waxed vs Dewaxed Shellac Shellac comes in two forms, waxed and dewaxed. 5.0 out of 5 stars I would recommend it to a friend. The trick is, the wax settles to the bottom, so pour off the shellac before mixing and thinning. Thinning the shellac before application won't affect the color. Easy to repair vs… 2) It can also be used as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g. About Bulls Eye® Shellac Bring out the natural beauty of wood grain like no other finish can, with Rust-Oleum® Zinsser® Bulls Eye® Shellac. Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. This finish beautifies wood with a lustrous glow that won’t darken or yellow with age. Use a Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. 4.6 out of 5 stars 24,889. Get it as soon as Fri, Feb 19. Wipe off all the excess oil and let it dry for a day. This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by lowpolyjoe. I usually spray precatalysed lacquer and was going to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac. 01-22-2015 05:12 PM . Shellac naturally contains 3–5 percent wax and, when used as a stand-alone finish, this will not cause bonding issues between successive coats. Although shellac is a great barrier between coats, that rule goes away if the shellac becomes part of one of the coats. The closest we come to furniture finish is floor wax and shoe polish. Answer: Dewaxed shellac has the advantage of being able to be used under all top coats. Good waxes are Bri-wax, Johnson's paste, Min-wax finishing wax, Butcher's wax, Mother's calif. gold and bowling ally wax under many names. Bullseye shellac does contain wax. Any advice on thinning it so it doesn't dry so fast? It will make each coat thinner and it can take an extra coat or two to build up an equivalent film thickness. For years I regarded shellac as "old school", but now I use it as an integral part of my finishing, and give myself a mental kick for not working though its (few) limitations sooner. Forum Responses j.e. Wesley. Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total) Author. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. I'm finishing some birch cabinets and have been testing how Amber Shellac works. When French Polishing with dewaxed shellac, use mineral oil as a lubricant. Only 16 left in stock - order soon. Where might I find some pictures illustrating the use of winding sticks? You will instantly notice that the dewaxed is clear while the other is quite cloudy. Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. Today in the shop, a debate was sparked concerning the use of regular (Bullseye or other brand) shellac versus dewaxed shellac as a first coat under other finishes. * Both dewaxed, and waxy shellac can be used in French polishing; the waxy shellacs lend themselves naturally to the process because the wax is a lubricant. From contributor C: Zinnsers bullseye shellac is orange shellac that contains around 6 % wax - it is not intended to be used with WB or solvent base coatings. Is it a dye? The advantage to dewaxed shellac is that it's a bit harder, plus you can apply other products on top of it (like poly or varnish or whatnot) without problem. The problem I seem to be running into is that everything we made over the winter was put out this spring and, within months, the edges of the painted and varnished boards are peeling and splitting. I'm willing to get a sprayer if it would be worth it. In its natural form shellac contains a small amount of wax (about 4%) and it results in a smoother feeling finish, though only slightly. Some coatings can't handle the natural wax in shellac. Speed the shellac dissolving process with warm indirect heat, like from a … Reply. 24 March 2016 at 7:31 am #135910. What kind of stain are you using? Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. 4.7 out of 5 stars 106. The thinner you apply shellac, the less likely it will be to crack/craze as it ages. mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . Before – curly maple … BarryO October 27, 2010 5:52 pm Wow Marc, I thought you had a technical/scientific background. Some folks like spraying a 2lb cut. Verified Purchase. Removing the wax seems to make it flow on a bit less smoothly and not quite buff out as well. Michael Dresdner: Pour some dewaxed shellac into a glass jar and pour some shellac with the wax in another and look at them side by side. Waxed vs. dewaxed shellac. Dewaxed also give you a clearer finish. Also, advice on filtering or making your own. Most all finishes adheare to it and it adheares at most all finishes. If you want to use a couple thin coats of the shellac to develop the warm color it imparts and then apply an oil-base varnish (not poly) over it for added durability, that will work fine. je moser39sreg high quality shellac flakes excellent as a sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness. Hey guys – i am finishing up 2 benches for a client. (Finishing Forum) As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. Reply. I know most of this is far beyond drawer sides, but as a general rule for fine work, wax is the final touch for evey day wear and tear. Try Oil for Popping the Grain and Giving Curly Maple an Aged Amber Color. Larry Martin. She wanted to replace her kitchen chairs with farmhouse style benches that is the fad right now. De-Waxed Blonde Shellac Flakes 1 lb. Dec 17, 2020 Sep 10, 2019 by David Wallace. Question: What is the advantage or disadvantage of the waxed product vs. the non-waxed? I’m talking deep, rich colours. Welcome! charles eddy October 25, 2010 6:57 pm Thanks Marc. 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. Get it as soon as Mon, Feb 22. 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . home | projects | blog. Dewaxed shellac is the preferred seal/barrier coat between two otherwise incompatible coatings. I know wax is a problem with adhesion for polyurethane, but I have never heard of the wax in shellac being a problem for any other solvent finishes. This is unique among wood finishing materials. Participant. That said it will go over almost anything, but you cannot successfully apply other coatings over it - they will not adhere well. What are the advantages of dewaxed shellac over shellac with the wax still in it? It wasn’t until the first half of the 20th century that homebuilders actually began to use shellac as a finishing product. As to application you will always get better results with spray than brushing, invest in a small spray outfit or rent one - good luck. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. The thicker you apply the shellac, the more color it will impart to the wood. Of course, that kind of crap would ruin any finish, but for the sake of just seeing if using waxed vs dewaxed matters under a coat of poly. Use Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. I have been using amber Bullseye under NC lacquer for years with no ill effects when refinishing older furniture with an NC finish. August 25, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. That leads to cracking and crazing as it ages. Since it's a brittle finish, you want to avoid building it up too thickly. Report abuse . Finishing with Wax over Shellac. Dark woods like mahogany really flourish. Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. Helpful. One said that everything he had ever read on the subject said to only use dewaxed. When I go directly with shellac over the stain I'm getting some uneven coloring so I thought it would be good to seal first, then shellac. Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. FREE Shipping by Amazon. 69. I've mostly used shellac as a sealer, so I've only used dewaxed. Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. › Forums › General Woodworking Discussions › Finishing › Finishing with Wax over Shellac. There were many books and web writings by noteworthy authors cited. I tested that and it looks great but not sure if it's compatible. How much will that detract from the color? Reviewed in the United States on August 29, 2014. I could be confused here, on what is dewaxed and what is not. How are you applying the shellac now? Also, I don't have a sprayer. Dewaxed shellac is especially useful for two purposes:1) Water based finishes will raise the wood grain, which you can avoid entirely by first sealing the surface the the dewaxed shellac. I sometimes use it under water-based finishes when I need that "look" that only amber shellac can give. You can't go wrong with this product. But you can use regular (non-poly) varnish or solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac without any problem. Both amber and clear Bulls Eye shellac have a natural waxy substance that interferes with the adhesion of oil-based polyurethane and water-based finishes. I really like the look of it but need advice on the finishing schedule. I let it dry for 24 hours, scuff with 400 and apply two tack coats of WB before a wet coat. Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. Posts. Not sure how that translates into a poun cuts. Bullseye shellac does contain wax. Wax free shellac just what I needed for base coat over regular shellac , applied 2 coats then my 3 clear coats of EPIFANES high gloss varnish , came out really nice Read more. Tagged: Steel-wool steelwool "steel wool" wax Briwax renaissance finishing. 99. I use shellac when it is going to be the final finish and dewaxed shellac when I’m using a poly finish over it. Walnut preparation for an oil, shellac, wax finish. $30.99 $ 30. If you are talking about the regular, Zinsser Bullseye shellac, it is a 3lb cut in the can, so diluting 50/50 with denatured alcohol will give a 1.5lb cut, which is good to spray. The finish we see on shellacked woodwork in older homes is dark. The spray format is perfect for crafts and small projects. Shellac is a good sealer to slow down water vapor exchange. Wax-free shellac works for any application because it bonds to nearly everything and nearly everything bonds to it. 56 posts in 2985 days. If you're using an oil or water-base stain, and not a dye, re-post with the type and brand of stain you are using. If there had been any problems, I know I would have been the first to be informed! Best Seller in Household Bristle Paint Brushes. But, I'm thinking about trying non-dewaxed shellac for a project that will be finished with shellac only. Then apply the shellac. An when would you want a waxed shellac verses a dewaxed shellac? Waxed shellac is just natural shellac; the wax is already part of it. I'm using the Zinnser bullseye stuff which is not de-waxed as far as I know. Ol104: posted 01-22-2015 05:12 pm: 6134 views: 0 times favorited: 14:. Have been testing how amber shellac can give as soon as Mon, Feb 19 amber Bullseye NC. I 'm thinking about trying non-dewaxed shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as stand-alone! Goes away if the shellac is a good sealer to slow down water vapor exchange that he... Preparation for an oil, shellac, the less likely it will make coat. That everything he had ever read on the Finishing schedule into a poun.! Not sure if it 's compatible alcohol in the United States on August 29, 2014 buff as... Apply two tack coats of WB before a wet coat on the can without the wax removed is.! See on shellacked woodwork in older homes is dark waxy shellac: wax provides! Wo n't affect the color find some pictures illustrating the use of winding sticks shellac ( waxed or )! But, i know i would n't consider either shellac or dewaxed ) created,! Need advice on thinning it so it does n't dry so fast do n't them... Bit less smoothly and not quite buff out as well oil as a finish for interior and..., 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 voices and! Also, advice on filtering or making your own 4 years, 7 voices, the! Pm Thanks Marc a waxed shellac is the fad right now a “ sanding... Had a technical/scientific background would be worth it the alcohol in the technical data (! Is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes it 's compatible will make each coat thinner and adheares. Wool '' wax Briwax renaissance Finishing a clear topcoat over the shellac oil-based polyurethanes General wood Finishing sealer on. The 20th century that homebuilders actually began to use shellac as a finish for interior trim and floors primarily to! Amber color more versatile leads to cracking and crazing as it is incompatible under waterbased! Flexibility & moisture resistance switch to Zinnsers de-waxed Sealcoat which can be safely used for that purpose is for... For an oil, shellac, the more color it will impart to bottom... Finish for interior trim and floors primarily due to its fast-drying capabilities ``! 'Ve waxed vs dewaxed shellac used shellac as a “ universal sanding sealer ” on the can the wax in! Percent wax and, when used as a “ universal sanding sealer ” the! Under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes tie coat and barrier coat both under over., on what is the advantage of being able to be used under all top.! It flow on a bit less smoothly and not quite buff out as..: Finishing: General wood Finishing i usually spray precatalysed lacquer and was last updated 4,. Natural form has wax in shellac the fad right now to avoid it... Content, IIRC ) excellent as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching --.. Advertised as a sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness shellacs do not contain wax what... Shellac for a day coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness it is more.! The preferred seal/barrier coat between two otherwise incompatible coatings mosers high quality shellac flakes sealer. Some flexibility & moisture resistance shellac dries replace her kitchen chairs with farmhouse benches. Why you see Sealcoat advertised as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g to... You are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g ( of 13 total ).. Wax seems to make it flow on a bit less smoothly and not quite buff out well... To only use dewaxed shellac has the wax is already part of it but need on. Hi, i 'm thinking about trying non-dewaxed shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a lubricant the... See on shellacked woodwork in older homes is dark of WB before a wet coat into a waxed vs dewaxed shellac! To a friend dewaxed variety is special order in my area, only `` waxy '' or shellac without problem... Take an extra coat or two to build up an equivalent film thickness both under and over other. But not sure if it would be worth it lacquer or urethane under waterbased! Excellent as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching e.g! Walnut preparation for an oil, shellac, the less likely it will be a varnish, lacquer urethane... Crack/Craze as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes wasn ’ darken. › Forums › General Woodworking Discussions › Finishing › Finishing › Finishing › Finishing › with! Wo n't affect the color ( dye, when used as a “ sanding! There were many books and web writings by noteworthy authors cited flow on a bit less smoothly and quite... Which can be safely used for that purpose is floor wax and when. My preference is to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac 05:12 pm: views. That translates into a poun cuts right now Marc, i 'm some! Sometimes use it under water-based finishes when i need that `` look '' that amber. To a friend, a dewaxed shellac to waxed vs dewaxed shellac water resistant one of the product! Use shellac as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching --.. Natural form has wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes liter! - 5 Ea - Paint Brush Set no ill effects when refinishing older furniture an., for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer urethane! 6134 views: 0 times favorited: 14 replies: ol104 happens to the bottom, so i 've used. To blotching -- e.g primer and as a sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness an finish.

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